advice on doing public criminology

this post is taken directly from the american society of criminology's division on women and crime's newsletter. you can access the full newsletter at: http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/dwc/newsletter/. thanks to jeanne flavin for putting together such an interesting column on public criminology and allowing us to share it on our blog.

Ask A Tenured Professor

PUBLIC CRIMINOLOGY: "How do we publish, while others perish?”

This column explores the issue of public criminology, that is, criminology as a way of writing and engaging intellectually with the public. I asked how those of us who work in universities might “do” public criminology, and asked practitioners/policymakers what works and does not work in terms of undertaking partnerships with people inside academe. I am very grateful to Miki Akimoto, Becky Block, Michelle Inderbitzin, Kelly Moult, and Wendy Perkins for their frank and honest responses, and thank them for moving the conversation along in important ways!

If there is sufficient interest, I’d like to continue the conversation about public criminology in a future column (though I’d need some feedback on what kind of discussion would be most beneficial!). As always, if you have ideas or questions for future columns, please send them to jflavin@fordham.edu.
Thank you!
Jeanne Flavin


Answer #1. What works? The Working Group on Research Collaboration between Practitioners and Academics has had four ASC workshops where papers were presented, and has had lively email discussions on this issue. We are especially concerned about research collaboration from the practitioner's point of view. If you go to the CWHRS Forum, at http://www.icjia.state.il.us/cwhrs/, and click on "Collaboration," you will see the papers presented at our last two meetings. You will also be able to click on "contract and protocol for agencies working with researchers." This is a tool for practitioners [editor’s note: co-authored by Jo Belknap, Susan Ransbottom, Jenn Roark] to use to judge the integrity and professional skills of academics who want to work with them. I believe that Jackie Campbell also has such a tool, but I haven't been able to get a copy so far. Our agency has developed a contract for research collaboration, in which the outside researcher agrees to maintain confidentiality, sets out a timeline and a list of products, etc. In addition, you might look at a couple of CWHRS publications:

Block, Carolyn Rebecca, Barbara Engel, Sara Naureckas & Kimberly A. Riordan (1999). The Chicago Women’s Health Risk Study: Lessons in Collaboration . Violence Against Women , Vol. 5 No. 10, 1158-1177.

Block, Carolyn Rebecca, Barbara Engel, Sara Naureckas & Kimberly A. Riordan (1999). Collaboration in the Chicago Women’s Health Risk Study. Research Brief: May, 1999. Chicago: Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority. (Has several good citations.) Re: larger principles of public criminology: …The single most important principle I can think of at the moment is to support data integrity. The foundation of almost everything we do is good, reliable, clearly defined data. Data access is power. Therefore, supporting data integrity and accessibility supports democratic decision-making. Too often, however, academics seem to think of those who are responsible for maintaining data integrity as the "data fairy." Instead, academics should partner with people who collect and maintain data, to increase data quality and accessibility. Specifically, when data integrity is threatened, academics should speak up. When an analyst is fired or a research agency is "lined out" of the budget because they refuse to cook the data, academics should scream. This has been happening a lot lately, and all I hear is a deafening silence. Also, academics should thoroughly document and archive any data that they collect - so that studies can be replicated and so that people in the community can use the data as a basis for decisions.

Answer #2: Since, I am both a practitioner and an academic, I have seen both sides of the coin. Practitioners tend to think academics are nothing but pencil-pushers, and academics tend to think practitioners are do-gooders with no intelligence. Of course these feelings are not universal among practitioners and academics but they are prevalent enough to cause problems. The key is for each side to appreciate what the other side has to offer. Practitioners can offer personal insight into things that academics may never experience, thus making their research more full and complete. In addition, sometimes practitioner experience can 'back up' the research and validate it in the eyes of other practitioners. Academics can offer practitioners (hopefully) methodologically sound program evaluations and empirical support for their on-the-job experiences, thus validating the things they have done/seen and lending credibility to them in the field. That said, both parties must come to the table prepared to work together in such a way that everyone walks away feeling as if their contributions are valuable. Most of the academics I am associated with value practitioners and work with them, however practitioners are not always open to working with academics. I think academia has to overcome that pencil-pusher stigma. I do think that one way to do that is for all people in academia to spend time in the field getting their hands dirty. I know not everyone would agree with me, but if we want to build partnerships then first-hand knowledge of what the practitioners experience is a must so we can come to the table with more than our SPSS and our wits.

Answer #3: I believe that in South Africa [writer is senior researcher at a university] our location as university units paralyze our efforts to act in pressurizing government to act in relation to legislative reform proposals that we set out on the basis of research conducted with criminal justice agencies. Our task is made even more difficult by the fact that we are overwhelmingly donor funded (e.g Soros, Mott, Rowntree etc), which I think has led to the development of young researchers who overwhelmingly research what is funded, rather than have the space to be critically distant, and develop a particular interest and expertise.

Answer #4. I mulled over the quite interesting and very relevant questions that you pose in your query for your column. As you pointed out in our conversation, academe has/have (is it a collective noun?) a large number of resources and vast knowledge that could be useful to criminal justice (and other social services) practitioners, but the connections aren't always made. So, how do you go about bridging that gap?

As you know, much of my career has been in this weird twilight space that exists somewhere between academia and straight-out practice. This makes me just knowledgeable enough about both areas to be dangerous. . . . It seems to me, if you are addressing your responses to academics, that the first thing I would say is, "Beware of arrogance." Too often, you see outside experts coming into practitioner systems with the assumption that because they have XX years of study and YY letters behind their names, that they have The Answer, or worse yet, They Will Find The Answer For You, little practitioner. If you are an academic wishing to partner with and support a public system, remember that you are only one part of the equation. You may know every theory published since 1807, but it is highly unlikely that you have spent time dealing with the messy, nuanced and difficult realties that families in crisis face on a daily basis. Your theories about self-actualization mean little to a mother who is sitting there with $27 in her checking account trying to decide between keeping the heat on and buying groceries. You will need to take some time to get to know the realities of the system you are working with.Which leads me to my second piece of advice, "Take time to understand the culture and system you're trying to partner with." In many public systems, academics are regarded with a great deal of wariness. Many criminal justice, child welfare and other social service workers have been involved in studies that a) took a lot of time for interviews, survey completion, record keeping, etc., and then b) never resulted in any measurable or real improvements in their working lives.* Worst still, many of them have found their work written up as somehow inadequate to the task at hand, regardless of how hard they were working in usually drastically under-resourced situations. These types of reports are often written by researchers or academics who haven't taken the time to fully understand the entire system they are looking at, and are trying to apply ideal/utopian notions to systems that are sometimes operating with 18th century management techniques and 19th century technology.*a subcomponent to this response (or perhaps a corollary) is communicate, communicate, communicate. Then communicate again. Make sure that people who are writing about get to see drafts of things so they can see if they are accurate and/or reflect their understanding. Depending on the situation, you don't have to give folks veto power over documents, but you need to be respectful about sharing information - particularly with the folks who have contributed to your content.Thirdly, "This will take more time and energy than you think." Any good partnership/collaboration takes a great deal of time to establish and maintain. The people involved really matter, and they have to become comfortable with each other before they can move toward that all important feeling of trust. Moreover, you need to take the time at the outset to make sure you are really all on the same page. If an academic approaches a system because she thinks they want to measure X, but the reality is that it's really Y and Z that are important, everyone winds up frustrated at the end of the day. VERY importantly, you must also take the time to make sure that when you say you're measuring X, the practitioners understand that you mean X and aren't hearing Y because of differences in jargon or terminology.Be humble. Folks out on the front lines of our public safety and social services systems have it tough. They deal with life's most difficult circumstances on a daily basis, and literally make life and death decisions. Their field knowledge is often incredibly deep and insightful. LISTEN to them. Recognize at the end of the day that you may well learn more from them than they from you.

Editor’s note: Arguably the best piece of advice I have ever been given is to write plainly and without jargon. Two of my favorite “readers” work for non-profits (one of whom is Miki Akimoto, who contributed to this column). I spent nearly a year at an agency, during which time I wrote three articles that somehow profiled or alluded to their work. I showed a draft of one piece it to my colleague for her feedback.

Judy: Jeanne, when you talk about someone getting out of prison and their ‘mutually interactive networks of support,’ what is it exactly that you mean?
Me: You know, people help each other out.
Judy: Ummm, then why don’t you just say that?!

Also, I need to come to grips with my own ignorance if I’m really to learn anything (which I think is hard for an academic to do!). Recently, for example, I thought I was holding my own in a discussion of the Adoption and Safe Families Act when an child protective services administrator said something in passing that I didn’t follow but everyone else (ACS workers) clearly did. Rather than ask for clarification, I just kept nodding. And then I thought to myself, “Jeanne, that seemed a pretty important and basic point; you’d best ask even if you look stupid.” So I asked for clarification, and was so glad I did because otherwise that “pearl of common knowledge” would have been lost to me.

1 As I understand it, if a child is in kinship care and kin does not formally assume custody – which many families do not wish to do out of respect for the mother, no matter how messed up she might be – than the ASFA/involuntary termination clock still ticks!

u.s. incarceration at midyear 2005

the bureau of justice statistics has released midyear 2005 incarceration numbers. since june 30, 2004, imprisonment has risen by about 1.6 percent, while jail populations grew by 4.7 percent. women now make up 7 percent of the prison population and 13 percent of jail inmates. louisiana and georgia incarcerate the greatest percentage of their residents (with more than 1 percent in prison or jail), while maine and minnesota have the lowest rates (with about 0.3 percent of their state residents incarcerated).

nevertheless, even low incarceration states look high in international perspective. roy walmsley's latest world population list helps put these numbers in context. japan's rate is 58 per 100,000, norway's rate is 65, germany's is 96, saudi arabia's is 110, canada's is 116, england's is 142, mexico's is 182. you get the idea.

based on the 2005 data, the u.s. will continue to lead the world with a rate of 738 per 100,000 residents, outdistancing up-and-comers such as Belarus, (532 per 100,000), Turkmenistan (489), Cuba (487), Suriname (437), and South Africa (413).

walmsley's analysis shows great heterogeneity within and across continents:

• the median rate for western African countries is 52 whereas for southern African countries it is 324;
• the median rate for south American countries is 152 whereas for Caribbean countries it is 324;
• the median rate for south central Asian countries (mainly the Indian sub-continent) is 55 whereas for (ex-Soviet) central Asian countries it is 386;
• the median rate for southern European countries is 80 whereas for central and eastern European countries it is 184;
• in Oceania (including Australia and New Zealand) the median rate is 111.

criminologists have predicted a "leveling off" in u.s. incarceration for several years now, but we continue to see non-trivial increases in both the number (56,428 more inmates than last year) and rate (from 725 to 738 per 100,000) of incarceration. both represent all-time records.

journaling interns -- tell 'em to write it all down

i supervise a fair number of criminal justice internships. i ask my students for two things: (1) a short paper applying some aspect of their liberal arts education to the experience; and, (2) a journal of daily or weekly experiences.

the papers tell me how my course materials are refracted through students' own experiences. the journals give me their blow-by-blow accounts of these experiences. i'm reading two terrific journals now, and they're absolutely fascinating.

the best journals record things like lunch conversations as well as more official work-related activities. the excerpts below are taken from a single journal by an excellent student who did an internship at a highly-regarded agency.

i asked the student (let's call her holly) for permission to reprint these excerpts, but will use pseudonyms and anonymize people and places just to ensure that nothing comes back to haunt her. holly's journal gives a sense for the range of experiences and the mix of formal and informal training and networking one gets on a good internship. you can also see her perceptiveness and personality in the writing and observations.

...I then went to lunch with two other interns (names restaurant). We ended up sitting with two agents from [names agency]. They told us about their jobs, their past jobs + education. Both are very friendly + talkative. [Name] seems like a person who won't put up with any shit. [Name 2] is very easy going + relaxed.

... For lunch we went to this little [place], two blocks from [agency]. We waited for over a hour, but the food was worth it. It also gave me time to talk to [name] about what it takes to be an agent... I can't wait to start applying for jobs. [Name] gave me a website that lists police/investigator positions that are open.

... We arrived on the scene, the local officers had us wait to enter the house because the search warrant hadn't been signed yet. The news crews were already setting up their equipment... Then the two of us went inside to take more measurements. We started in the basement + worked our way room to room. Then we went upstairs to where the body was...

... I called in sick with a bad cold.

... By the way the [agency's] electric stapler is a piece of CRAP. It jams all the time + two out of every three staples won't go through the paper. AARRR!

... [Name] stopped by my cube + asked if I would be willing to help unload + enter in some new shotguns...

... The M-4, I have never shot before. It can be switched from manual, semi-automatic or fully automatic. It was like a machine gun.

... I have an interview with the [city] Police Department! It was the first of several tests + interviews. I passed the written + video tests. I completed the Behavioral Questionnaire -- now I have to fill out a background packet.

... I had to look through several months of files for any thefts of copper wire (the things people steal). I actually found eight reports.

... The coroner came in + told me not to wear my mask. It would stink, but I would be able to breathe better. I went out + they got started. She made a Y down the chest of the male with a scalpel. There is a bright yellow fatty layer under the skin + then the muscles. After pulling that away, she took basically hedgeclippers + clipped each rib + took out the front of the rib cage....

... The use of force training was fun. This time I was the dummy for [agent's name] in the demonstrations + I partnered up with [name] for the baton usage. I supposedly have a high tolerance for pain because the pressure point demo didn't really work on me.

... Man, I'm a dumbass.

... I talked with [agent] about my dilemma with [2 agencies]. he thinks since i'm a girl and have a degree, i will be heavily sought after. he really is a great guy.

... I learned that I'm left-eye dominant but i can still shoot with my right eye.

... He said he could get me some great connection with the [names police department]. This would be great, but I'm not sure I really want to be in the midwest.

... Made another trip to [place] to pick up another truck. Mine smelled like smoke + her's smelled like vomit.

... I sat in on a course for child abuse + sexual abuse.

... We will be making labels + entering everything into a computer. It won't be very fun work...

the full journal is (much) more intriguing and revealing than the excerpts, of course. such well-written journals take me back to both the mundanity and the shock and awe of my internship twenty years ago. my summer as an investigator in the hennepin county (minneapolis) public defender's office was a career turning point, which still shapes my views on crime and inequality. holly seems to have had a similar experience. most students find the journals to be pretty painless and the more reflective papers a bit trickier. if the journals are going well, i'll sometimes ask them to use the papers to analyze the "journal data" (or some portion of it) sociologically.

internships are great for students, but tough for faculty to supervise and evaluate. though i can't carve out much time for independent studies these days, holly and the the other students i supervised this year made it easy and fun. plus, sharing students' excitement in making fateful career and life choices is one of the great underrated perks of academic life.

ain't got no home

from all reports, the two most immediate challenges facing reentering prisoners involve employment and housing. with regard to the latter issue, the real cost of prisons blog points to an atlanta journal-constitution story on the problems of prisoners with nowhere to go.

in many states, one must list an address just to get out of prison. by necessity, however, these are often very temporary arrangements. for example, one's sister may allow her name to be listed in the pre-release plan, though she has absolutely zero intention of permitting more than an overnight stay. when parole boards or prison officials scrutinize such arrangements, they tend to think twice about releasing the inmate.

anyone studying homeless men in the united states quickly discovers the preponderance of former felons in their ranks. there's simply nowhere else for many of them to go. some politicians, such as john conyers of michigan, have proposed housing projects for former prisoners. this is a reasoned response to a real problem, but former prisoners tell me that halfway houses are often the worst place to go if one wishes to remain crime- or drug-free.

for example, a woman who was about to be released told me that a local halfway house was far scarier to her than the prospect of staying in prison ("I don't want to go there. Everyone is using. There's a crackhouse across the street! I DON'T want to go there!"). i'm sure that there are some better housing options both locally and nationally, but i'm not currently aware of any institutions that could be replicated on a scale that would accommodate over 600,000 releasees per year.

poll on domestic surveillance

both felon disenfranchisement and the nsa's domestic surveillance program appear to pit treasured civil rights and liberties against vilified groups that may threaten public safety.

james love has a nice little piece on telephone records of "who calls whom" at huff po today. i have no expert knowledge on any of this, but i'm concerned as a citizen about the selective application of these data against those on any president's enemies list. here's how mr. love puts it:

Can you imagine how interesting it would be to have this type of information on one of your enemies? To know exactly whom they call, and who calls them, and exactly when, going back at least five years? Can you imagine how interesting someone might find these same items, about you?

yikes. i'm already paranoid that the little "click" on my phone is really gene hackman listening from a van outside the social science tower. yes, i can certainly imagine such scenarios all too vividly. so, apparently, can my fellow citizens. a new usa today/gallup poll suggests that civil liberties comes out ahead (51% to 43%) on surveillance, just as it does on disenfranchisement. here's the question:

As you may know, as part of its efforts to investigate terrorism, a federal government agency obtained records from three of the largest U.S. telephone companies in order to create a database of billions of telephone numbers dialed by Americans. ... Based on what you have heard or read about this program to collect phone records, would you say you approve or disapprove of this government program?

Approve - 43%
Disapprove - 51%
No opinion - 6%

this represents a statistically significant difference for a sample of 809 respondents (unfortunately i couldn't gather response rate or any other methodological details from the story). such views are likely to change rapidly, of course, but at least the phone database question seemed to be worded in a fair manner. in particular, righties would like the lead-in ("as part of its efforts to investigate terrorism") and lefties would like the detail on the program's scope ("billions of telephone numbers" and "dialed by Americans"). in my opinion, neither side should be completely happy with the wording on any contentious partisan issue. here are some related items:

[Asked of the approving 43%]: Is that mainly because you do not think the program seriously violates Americans’ civil liberties, (or is it mainly because) you think investigating terrorism is the more important goal, even if it violates some Americans’ civil liberties?

Does not violate civil liberties - 12%
Investigating terrorism is more important, even if it violates civil liberties - 29%
Unsure - 2%

[Asked of the disapproving 51%]: Do you think there would ever be circumstances in which it would be right for the government to create a database of telephone records, or would it not be right for the government to do this under any circumstances?

Yes, there are circumstances in which it would be right - 17%
No, not under any circumstances - 31%
Unsure - 3%

how would you have responded? i'd find myself in the disapproving 51% but probably not in the hardcore libertarian 31% that say "not under any circumstances." off the top of my head, i'd say that the circumstances would involve demonstration of a compelling and specific need, an independent judicial review, and a long list of data assurances. i can imagine the official response to requests for such safeguards:

"well, gosh, if we had all that, we wouldn't need a domestic telephone surveillance database."

or, perhaps:

"data assurances? we ain't got no data assurances. we don't need no data assurances. i don't have to show you any stinking data assurances!"

extinguishing bright futures

what would lead three popular teenage boys to trade in bright futures for one brutal crime? from tacoma, washington, the three boys daniel harris, 18, cyril walrond, 17, and jarelle marshall, 16, were each charged with first-degree murder in the beating death of 55-year-old dien kien huynh. the three boys allegedly went on a crime spree that night, robbing a couple earlier in the evening, and then robbing huynh in his own front yard and beating him with a hammer. huynh died two days later.

all three of the boys were athletes, members of the football and track teams at mt. tahoma high school. walrond and harris had both earned college scholarships from the washington state achievers program, a scholarship fund set up by bill and melinda gates to reward "talented, low-income students who have overcome difficult circumstances and who are motivated to attend college."

the tacoma news tribune reports:

Ten days after Huynh was attacked, Walrond served on a panel of high school students at a Tacoma summit on raising the standardized test scores of minority students. He told participants at the University of Puget Sound that he plans to study pre-med and psychology at the University of Washington this fall.

“In the community I live in, not many people will make it,” said Walrond, whose father, Greg, serves as a youth track team coach in Tacoma. “I take it upon myself to be the light in the darkness.”

if these boys are convicted, they will each face at least 20 years in prison. the light walrond speaks of will have been extinguished in many lives -- the victim, the three perpetrators, the families and friends that love them. more than 100 people, including dozens of students from mt. tahoma high school, attended the arraignment. many of them sobbed as the boys appeared before the judge.

as someone who studies delinquency and has spent time with violent juvenile offenders, cases like this are the most difficult for me to understand. for young people with a real investment in and hope for their futures, what makes them choose to risk it all in one impetuous night?

obviously there are other cases where youths of privilege commit terrible crimes -- the glen ridge case chronicled in our guys, whatever really happened with the duke lacrosse team -- but this one strikes me as particularly unfortunate. as walrond pointed out, he was a success story in his community, a role model for others. now, if convicted, these boys will spend much of their young lives in prison and, if and when they ever get out, the world will be a very different, darker place for each of them.

muntaquim and hayden cases dismissed

two more cases challenging felon disenfranchisement, muntaqim v. coombe and hayden v. pataki, were dismissed last week by the second circuit u.s. court of appeals. that's jazz hayden at left, who filed the latter suit while incarcerated in new york.

the plaintiffs had argued that felon voting restrictions diluted the voting strength of african american and latino communities, in violation of section two of the voting rights act. i'll need to consult the great legal mind to parse the decisions, but i believe that this is the punch line:

“congress did not intend the voting rights act to cover such provisions” and that applying it in such cases “would alter the constitutional balance between the states and the federal government.”

most judicial challenges to felon disenfranchisement have failed. on the other hand, incremental state-by-state legislative and executive changes have been occurring regularly since the civil rights era. in this connection, catherine weiss of the brennan center has prepared a useful general template titled components of a right to vote bill. her brief summary:

• Restoration of Rights: This provision should clearly identify at what point voting rights are restored to people with criminal convictions – upon discharge from prison? upon completion of parole? upon completion of parole or probation? upon completion of sentence plus a waiting period?
• Notice: This provision should ensure that criminal defendants are informed: (1) before conviction and sentencing, that they will lose their voting rights; and (2) at the point of restoration, that they are again eligible to register and vote.
• Voter Registration: Under this provision, the government agency that has contact with people at the point of restoration (the Department of Corrections, or the Department of Parole or Probation, for example) should take responsibility for assisting them with voluntary voter registration.
• Maintaining the Statewide Voter Registration Database: This provision should ensure that names are removed from and then restored to the state’s computerized list of registered voters by electronic information-sharing between corrections agencies and elections agencies.
• Education: This section should make the state’s chief election official, usually the secretary of state, responsible for educating other government agencies and the public about the legislation.

because public opinion favors voting rights for ex-felons (80%), probationers (68%), and parolees (60%), legislators may be increasingly receptive to reenfranchising these groups. in contrast, only about 33% support voting rights for currently incarcerated prison inmates.

radio ga ga

we're doing a little radio tour for locked out this summer, so i got up early today to appear on daybreak usa and cable radio network. the interviews were fun and the hosts were gracious, so we're off to a decent start. here's the first leg:

May 6, 9 pm: WBZ Boston (Jeff)
May 7, 10 am: KPFA Berkeley (Jeff)
May 8, 8:35 am: USA network/Daybreak, Scott West (Chris)
May 8, 9:50 am: Cable Radio Network, national (Jack Roberts) (Chris)
May 16, 2:30 pm: American Urban Radio (Jeff)
May 22, 7:36 am: Jacksonville, Ed Furbee show (Chris)
May 25, 10:00 am: Tron in the Morning, Colorado Springs (Chris)

we often get calls and emails after such appearances. sometimes they are friendly, sometimes angry, and sometimes we just don't know what to make of them. i didn't hear jeff's bay area interview this weekend, but it sparked the following email:

In the books you have written, you probably have not addressed the initial "con": the courts' use of devious language and legal fictions, which are first responsible for the accused natural person (the "Defendant"), to unwittingly grant jurisdiction to the de facto "courts". (I.e.; statutory, non-Article III. courts.) While this material is distinctly not taught in "law" school, it is the observation of those of us who study the perverse manifestations of what purports to be "Justice" in the U.S.A., that several devices are used by the "courts" to entrap the "guilty" (often of victimless "crimes"), as well as the innocent. These (most briefly), are the use of the Fictitious Plaintiff, Fictitious Defendant, STRAMINEUS HOMO (Strawman), IDEM SONANS, and the deceptive question: "Do you understand the charges?" If some or all of these are unknown to you, you have failed in the very first part of your reportage, or mission. And, most greviously, you have failed to warn future victims of the "Just Us" system of any hint whatsoever, of how to avoid prosecution, in the first place!

i never know how to respond to such comments, except to thank the writers for their interest in my work. "dialogue with interested publics" sounds good in the abstract, but in such cases i often find that i have little to say beyond what i just said -- in the media or in my research. still, i think such radio tours create a nice opening to do a little public criminology outreach work.

NOTE: speaking of radio, the pic and post title are taken from the electric 6 cover of radio gaga. the band has a knack for combining the tasteless with the funny. depending on your perspective, the results are either "tasty" or "funless." the video doesn't quite match the six's classic (pg-13 rated) danger! high voltage!, but a line like "fire in the taco bell" doesn't come along every day.

keith ellison and crime control

every political candidate must say something about crime, but the level of discourse -- from both the democrat and republican side of the aisle -- seems to have slipped a bit in recent years.

candidate a: i'll make sure that all sex offenders serve at least fifty years, plus a lifetime term of double-secret probation.

candidate b: my opponents advocate coddling the worst of the worst! i propose sentences of at least fifty hundred years.

candidate c: under such a proposal, a cryogenically frozen offender could get off scot-free in five short milennia! fifty hundred years is fine and good, but we need to ensure that the pee-wee hermans of the world never see the light of day. i've introduced a bill that would mandate life without parole, plus fifty gazillion years.

in contrast, state representative keith ellison is one politician who talks more sensibly and pragmatically about crime and punishment. representing minneapolis' north side, mr. ellison has been outspoken on contentious crime issues. he is responsive to his district's demand for better public safety and cognizant of the consequences of punishment for individuals and communities. in particular, he has championed the issue of reenfranchisement and reintegration, as well as sentencing alternatives for drug offenders. i was especially moved by his remarks on the right to vote at a recent conference.

i am not blogging to endorse a particular candidate or party, but i am genuinely excited when i meet a politician who seems responsive to social science knowledge in my area of expertise. when i heard that representative ellison was one of many dems seeking to succeed martin sabo in the u.s. house, i asked my political science buddies whether he had a chance. they uniformly praised his oratory and intelligence but doubted his ability to leapfrog others in the distinguished field. well, mr. ellison just won the democratic party's endorsement for the 5th congressional district this weekend. if he takes the september 12 primary, he would surely be a heavy favorite in the overwhelmingly-democratic district this november.

i don't reside in his district and i've only really discussed crime with mr. ellison, but i came away impressed with his vision and his guts. many politicians are so terrified of being portrayed as soft on crime that they seem to suspend their own basic principles, good judgment, and reasoned analysis. if elected, part of me thinks that representative ellison could help articulate a clear alternative vision of crime, punishment, and public safety. of course, another part of me worries that he'll either have to dilute the vision or risk getting tarred with the "soft on crime" brush.

when do i stop being a felon?

i'm in washington today, enjoying an ncovr workshop on desistance from crime. after writing a dissertation on the topic in the nineties, it is nice to catch up.

i'm learning much, but one presentation was particularly intriguing for someone studying collateral sanctions such as voting and occupational restrictions. shawn bushway, megan kurlychek, and bobby brame ask the following question: when does a criminal's risk of a new offense decline to the point that it is indistinguishable from those with no record of past offending.

cool question, right? the authors apply event history analysis and life table demography to birth cohort data from philadelphia and racine, plotting the hazard rate of new offenses for young arrestees versus non-arrestees. at the risk of oversimplifying, the basic story is that the rate of a new arrest is approximately equivalent for the offender and non-offender groups after about 7 years. if such findings can be replicated across space and time, it could provide evidence against imposing lifetime bans on former criminal offenders. i believe that papers are forthcoming in criminology & public policy, crime & delinquency, and ampersand & ampersand.

i've got to prep my own talk, so i can only offer a few other notes on the workshop. first, i learned about reference groups and relative deprivation today. on my way to the exercise room, floridian alex piquero took note of my blindingly white legs. in minnesota, of course, i'm considered quite bronzed.

second, the best probably-shouldn' t-blog-about-this stories came from shadd maruna tonight. here's one i can share: aside from my committee and maybe a few select family members, shadd was virtually the only person interested in my early desistance writings. i'll never forget him writing to me (on actual letters, involving stationery and stamps) back when he was doing diss work as a grad student and i was struggling mightily as an assistant professor.

when shadd's letters arrived -- likely with a fresh batch of journal rejections -- his interest was greatly appreciated but a little problematic. at a time when i felt hopelessly and irredeemably lost, along comes a smart dissertator to ask for directions. i wanted to scrawl "go back! go back to etiology!" after reading making good, of course, i'm glad i didn't. somehow we've both managed to publish our work and, after at least seven years, we've yet to desist from desistance.

map of the new asylums

frontline's the new asylums addresses the deinstitutionalization of state psychiatric hospitals and the reinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in prisons. wgbh compiled a handy interactive map of mental health care in state prison systems, complete with estimated prevalence rates and staffing levels and contact information for administrators in each state.

i can't vouch for all the sources, but the bureau of justice statistics and american correctional association estimates are likely the best available. i haven't screened the video yet, but you can see clips online or order it for $30. i'd consider using it in my deviance class to show the interpenetration of social control systems, but it might also be useful in a social problems or punishment course.

legalize it?

mexico's senate passed a bill on friday that would decriminalize possession of up to 5 grams of marijuana, 0.5 grams of cocaine, 25 mgs of heroin, and two pounds of peyote. according to the washington post, cnn, and other sources, vicente fox is signaling that he will sign off on changes such as these to mexico's federal penal code:

Article 478: No criminal prosecution will be brought against ... II. Any drug addict or consumer who is found in possession of a narcotic for personal use. Article 474 defines a "consumer" as any person who consumes or uses psychotropic or narcotic substances, and who does not exhibit any symptoms of addiction.

legalization advocates such as ethan nadelman of the drug policy alliance are praising the measure, ostensibly for its potential to reduce low-level police corruption. i strongly favor ratcheting down lengthy drug sentences and collateral sanctions targeting drug offenders, such as housing and financial aid restrictions. nevertheless, the prospect of legal heroin gives me the willies.

although legalization seems to function ok in the netherlands, someone will have to convince me how this is a good deal for mexicans or americans. at best, the move will diminish the social harm associated with harsh and erratic enforcement (though i can imagine, say, san diego kids getting twenty years hard time for stuff they did legally in tijuana). at worst, the prevalence of use will increase and both locals and tourists could pick up some potentially life-changing habits.

given the two-pound peyote limit, one thing is certain: we'll see more carlos castaneda-like writing from students doing spring break in cancun and mazatlan.

emerging from prison as an adult

to borrow a story from the distinguished dr. uggen's hometown, the pioneer press ran a great piece a couple of weeks ago on steven glaze, a young man who was prosecuted as an adult at age 15, served 11 years in prison, and is now back out in the community trying to find a job, navigate a whole new world, and create a new life.

glaze walked out of prison with only his prison-issue television set and $100 to his name. even though glaze had taken advantage of all of the educational and vocational opportunities available to him while incarcerated, he reentered the community with the stigma of a long prison sentence, a lack of legitimate work history, and without even a driver's license to help smooth his way.

four months after his release, glaze is still looking for a job and is growing ever more frustrated. he claims it has been the most challenging experience of his life. adding to the pressure is the fact that his fiance, rachel (who he met during a prison poetry workshop -- another example of female volunteers falling in love with prison inmates), is pregnant with twins. it seems his struggles to adjust to his new life on the outside have just begun.

other juveniles tried as adults will face similar pressures sooner or later. as i wrote about recently, willard jimerson, jr. was prosecuted as an adult at age 13 and sentenced to 23 years. he's 25 today and will serve another decade behind bars, but he will eventually get out and be expected to function as an adult in the larger society.

more recently, on friday, a 15-year-old boy, evan savoie, from ephrata, washington was convicted of first-degree murder and he now faces 20 to 26 years in prison. savoie was 12-years-old at the time of his crime and he is the youngest murder defendant since 1931 to be prosecuted as an adult in washington state.

as i've said before and will continue to reiterate, we should remember that all of these young men (and young women in similar situations) will likely survive their prison sentences and will be returned to the community to live among us. knowing that, how would you like to see them treated for their crimes?

how many of your students are doing the reading?

over a fine dinner with jeff draine and irene wong, i asked whether their penn students did all of the reading assigned for coursework. jeff replied that he doubted it, but quickly noted that his inside-out students indeed do all the reading.

jeff teaches in the inside-out prison exchange program, which takes university undergrads behind prison walls to attend class with inmates. in jeff's experience, the "inside" or incarcerated students often lead the way. this sets a high bar for preparation and participation that can motivate the "outside" students to work a little more diligently than they otherwise would.

i could envision such a pattern holding for my minnversity undergrads as well. if they heard inmates critiquing code of the streets, for example, they'd be more likely to dig into it to form their own opinions (especially if the critique somehow challenged ol' doc uggen's reading of the text). my pubcrim colleague michelle took the inside-out training program last summer, so i'm looking forward to some firsthand blogging on her experiences teaching in the program next year.

the most important holiday of the year?

today, april 26, is administrative professional's day a/k/a secretary's day. like defense secretary rumsfeld, i eagerly await the shower of prizes and recognition that will surely come my way as ASC executive secretary.

let me assure you that administrative professional's day is no hallmark holiday. the wikipedia entry lists the standard gifts as candy, flowers, a card, and "occasionally, extra time off." this will not stand. i work too hard typing minutes to be placated by a vermont teddy bear.

i've been secretary since 2003, so i have some expertise in this area. let me propose the following officially approved administrative professional's day gifts:

1. an extension cord for my laptop so i can sit at the big table
2. a large quantity of small-batch bourbon
3. a significant clothing allowance
4. comp me a couple nights at the conference hotel. club level, please
5. a secretary's secretary who would perform all actual work and work-like duties
6. a personalized stainless-steel ice-cream scooper
7. i guess i wouldn't mind a few flowers, candy, and cards

i fly to philadelphia today and state college on thursday, so i won't collect my gifts until returning this weekend. the next stop is dc on may 2, when i'll take rummy out for a little lunch and commiseration.

tip for the crim meetings

i've just returned from los angeles, where the 2006 american society of criminology meetings will be held. each year the ASC holds its midyear executive board meeting in the conference facilities for the upcoming november meeting. that way, the board can get a taste of the facilities and hammer down meeting details as it does its business.

the 2006 meetings will take place at the convention center, which means that the ASC booked rooms in three or four expensive hotels and will bus participants back and forth. i figure that the room block will fill fast, so i thought i'd pass along a little inside information.

after my stay this weekend, i can personally give a strong endorsement to the biltmore. the rooms are cool, with ancient curvy bathtubs and other amenities. but the truly inspiring spots are the art-deco lobbies, fountains, wrought-iron work, and pool area.

in the 1930s the academy awards were held at the biltmore, so there are great black-and-white photos of tyrone power, walt disney, and martha raye hanging about. plus, they still film scenes from the west wing and commander in chief in the boardroom and other spots in the hotel.

in my humble opinion, the whole place has a funky charm and nine billion times more texture than most conference hotels. see you in the bar...

killing sex offenders, volume II

a vigilante gunned down two released sex offenders last august in bellingham, washington. this sunday, joseph l. gray and william elliott were shot to death in maine, apparently by a young canadian man who shot himself when surrounded by officers. once again, the press cites a state sex offender registry as leading the killer to the victims.

both mr. gray and mr. elliott were listed on maine's online registry of convicted sex offenders. one can access the offender's name, address, date of birth, height, weight, and place of employment, as well as a color photograph. i learned that mr. elliott lived at 953 main street in east corinth, he was last convicted in 2002, served four months in jail, and had been on probation since that time. similar detail was provided for mr. gray, who was last convicted in massachusetts in 1992.

as a i wrote last year, the bellingham murderer sent a hand-written note to the seattle times, detailing his crimes and how he targeted the offenders. here's what the since-convicted killer wrote on the subject:

"the State of Washington, like many states now lists sexual deviants on the Net. And on most of these sites it shares with us what sexual crimes these men have been caught for, and most are so sick you wonder how they can be free ... In closing, we cannot tell the public so-and-so is 'likely' going to hurt another child, and here is his address then expect us to sit back and wait to see what child is next"

in a forthcoming article with jeff manza and melissa thompson, i ask whether felons constitute a criminal class, a status group, or a caste (at the time, maine was actually providing less detailed information online than states such as florida). we argue that caste-like relations best apply to hyperstigmatized sex offenders such as mr. gray and mr. elliott.

in my opinion, these murders contribute to the prevailing sense of hopelessness and permanent stigmatization felt by sex offenders, whether serving a life sentence in prison or a spell of probation for a less serious offense. in this regard, i've got nothing to add beyond what i wrote last fall:

even years before their scheduled release, both male and female prisoners have told me they feared "the internet" and public availability of information about them. rest assured that the bellingham murder story will quickly make the rounds of every TV room and sex offender unit in state penitentiaries. it is not a story of deterrence that will keep them from future crime. it is not a story of redemption or martyrdom that will give them strength as they work through the tough times. it is instead a story of the hysterical vigilante lying in wait, a story that embodies their fears about life after prison and their dim prospects for ever becoming a normal citizen in a community. and it makes them wonder why the hell they should go to treatment.

do such registries prevent more crime than they cause? who should be listed and for how long? in the name of public safety, dangerous information about many of us could be posted online -- is there a compelling rationale for listing sex offenders and not murderers or arsonists or drunken drivers? is there anything in your past that your neighbors ought to know about?

growing up behind bars

the seattle pi has a thought-provoking story today about willard jimerson jr., who at the age of 13 was sentenced as an adult to 23 years in prison for shooting and killing a 14-year-old girl. caught up in the moral panic over a new generation of juvenile "superpredators" in 1994, jimerson was one of the youngest people in washington state's history to stand trial as an adult.

the article brings up many of the points i highlight in my juvenile delinquency class, from jimerson's troubled family life, to his adjustment and survival in juvenile correctional facilities and adult prisons, to recent reports from the macarthur foundation about the development of the adolescent brain and young people's ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions.

jimerson is now 25 and has spent half of his life behind bars. he faces another decade in prison before coming out and facing a world that will be new and strange to him. i've written about this transition (using the same title, in fact) from my own research spending time with juvenile inmates who were about to return to the community at age 19 or 20 after several years in a correctional facility. those boys -- and they were still boys in many, many ways -- were excited but also terrified at the prospect of being out on their own. they faced the daunting tasks of trying to find jobs and apartments, and of navigating new worlds of transportation, bank accounts, and adult responsibilities.

jimerson has spent the last several years taking advantage of the educational and vocational training programs available to him in prison. will he be able to put those skills to use and successfully make the adjustment to life on his own in the community? as the article says:

In his mind, life outside the walls, where most everyone has their own car and moves freely through space, glows like a luminous vision. But his prospects, post-prison, are not bright. When released, Jimerson will be a grown man with a felony murder conviction, minimal education and an estimated $36,000 in court fines.

to saddle jimerson with what must seem a staggering debt adds insult to injury and again shows washington state apparently trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. i hope jimerson can overcome the odds against him and make a successful transition into the community when he is released after two decades in prison. he'll have paid his adolescence and his young adulthood for a child's terrible crime. what he'll do as a free adult will speak volumes about the impact of our justice system(s) and our communities' ability to redeem and forgive.

the lure of the bad boy

chris and i have both written recently about women volunteering and working in prisons and falling in love with inmates, often with painful consequences. a story in the miami herald this week reminded me that the lure of the bad boy starts early and runs deep.

in nikki waller's story, she reports that even as rumors swirled around their high school that three of their classmates were involved in the murder of a homeless man, "several teenage girls who knew what had happened went to the movies, hung out and traded phone messages with the boys."

the boys, billy ammons, thomas daugherty, and brian hooks, were indicted on charges of attacking and beating three homeless men, resulting in the death of norris gaynor. there is disturbing video on this case: one of the beatings -- with the perpetrators hitting the victim with baseball bats -- was caught on surveillance video and can be viewed in this news clip.

the three teenage boys are facing the possibility of life in prison; two of them could be sentenced to death, but i think that is unlikely. surprisingly, one of the surviving victims thinks the boys should receive more lenient treatment, saying on the video that the boys are too young to spend their rest of their lives in prison.

billy ammons, who was the last to be arrested, went to a movie with friends the weekend after the attacks. he told a 15-year-old friend that he would be the next to go to jail; she told police she cried but stayed silent. a 16-year-old girl told police: "we basically said, 'oh it's messed up, i can't believe they did that stuff,' and that was about it. never went into a whole discussion about it."

there are more egregious examples out there of whole communities keeping silent to protect the reputations of their golden boys, but the nonchalance of the girls in this case raises questions. is this just another case of bad boys proving irresistable and providing vicarious thrills to good girls? are today's adolescents really more jaded than those of the past?

criminological monkefication

my wildly creative daughter dropped me an ecard from careerbuilder.com, in which a monkey spake lines she had penned. always a sucker for talking monkeys (insert sociologist/criminologist joke here), i conducted my own experiments. i think talking monkeys could be an effective teaching tool. for example, please allow the primates to lay a little crim theory on you:

let's start with some robert k. merton, from the oft-cited classic that hooked me on sociological criminology in the first place. if that does anything for you, check out edwin sutherland, my intellectual great-grandaddy. of course, one cannot present sutherland these days without offering a travis hirschi-style control theory rebuttal. labeling perspectives, such as those of edwin lemert and howard becker offer an alternative vision based on the societal reaction to rule-breaking behavior. finally, feminist critiques of male-based theories force a fundamental reexamination of the nature of crime, victimization, and survivorship.

well, that gets me through about 10 weeks of the semester. from now on, i'm delivering all my lectures via monkey. maybe someone could work up a li'l marx, durkheim, and weber for soc 101. why didn't i monkify my own work? it doesn't stand up to the classics. for now, i can only dream of someday writing a passage worthy of monkification.

when calls for help go unheard

what do you do when you're a child and the lone adult in your house collapses? 5-year-old robert turner did exactly as he had been taught -- he called 911 and reported that his mother had "passed out." unfortunately, the 911 dispatcher demanded to talk to an adult in the house -- which was clearly not possible -- and then "hanged up" on the boy.

robert called 911 for a second time about three hours later and again told a dispatcher that his mom had passed out. again, the 911 dispatcher demanded to speak to his mother and then threatened the young boy: "Now put her on the phone before I send the police out there to knock on the door and you going to be in trouble." robert got scared -- and frustrated, no doubt -- and hung up the phone.

the police (not paramedics) did arrive some time later and found robert's mother dead. there is speculation that she would have lived had the first 911 dispatcher taken robert's call seriously and sent help.

this case has ignited controversy and the detroit police department has promised a full investigation. a 911 union president said that more than 25% of calls received are pranks and that robert's voice was inaudible at times. anyone who has ever tried to hold phone conversations with 5-year-olds can attest that it's not always easy, but 911 dispatchers have a special responsibility to listen carefully and to act appropriately. if prank calls are such a problem, maybe local agencies should consider instituting small sanctions like assigning the perpetrators some level of community service to discourage such behavior.

celebrity lawyer geoffry fieger has taken on the case, so we should expect a media blitz and a large wrongful death lawsuit. i hope in the midst of the debate we remember that there are children who are alone and afraid and when they find the courage to call for help, it's our responsibility to make sure they are heard.

no reason to smile

washington state has been in the news quite a lot lately with its crime, justice and voting issues, but shocking stories continue to emanate from the pacific northwest. the latest one to catch my attention is an article in the seattle times about two men facing federal drug charges in tacoma. apparently, federal prosecutors and officials from the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives attained a warrant to seize the "grills" or gold-capped teeth from the mouths of the suspects.

the two suspects were told the government had a warrant to seize their grills and that they were being taken to a dentist in seattle for removal. they both managed quick phone calls to their attorneys before being loaded into a vehicle. they were on their way to the dentist in seattle when their attorneys persuaded a judge to stop the seizure.

grills, typically made of precious metals and jewels, come in several different styles. some snap onto teeth like a retainer and are easily removed; others are permanently bonded to the teeth. the two suspects in this case had permanently bonded grills. federal prosecutors claimed that they did not know the grills were permanently bonded to the suspects' teeth. A spokeswoman for the u.s. attorney's office explained: "Asset forfeiture is a fairly routine procedure, and our attorneys were under the impression that these snapped out like a retainer." federal prosecutors abandoned the seizure attempt when they understood that the removal of grills could damage the defendants' teeth.

i'm not entirely sure i believe the prosecutors' story, given that they were taking the suspects to a dentist to have the grills removed. if they thought the grills just snapped out, would a trip to the dentist have been necessary?

at any rate, this case is highly disturbing. an expert of forfeiture law claimed he had never heard of anything like this in his 30 years in the field. i'll give him the last word on this post:

"This is especially egregious because these two had not been convicted and are presumed to be innocent," added forfeiture expert Troberman, who is not involved in the case. "What are they going to do next? Start taking artificial limbs from amputees?"

the air america experience

since a few have asked, here are my top-8 shareable observations on my al franken experience (i'd stretch it to 10 but who really wants 20 percent more filler?).

1. the overall vibe of the franken shop is friendly, busy, can-do, and semi-idealistic. you know how you get a gut sense about whether an organization (or academic department) is on the rise or the decline? this place felt like a small shop on the way up. either that, or the staff is just enjoying the ride while it lasts.

2. about a half-dozen young people were working laptops when i arrived. some could have passed for sociology honors students. one helpfully found information on-the-fly just before we went on the air.

3. jerry garcia. lots of jerry garcia.

4. lunchtime is lunchtime, even for a show that airs from 11-2. almost everybody was eating at their computers over the noon hour. the host popped out between breaks to grab a few bites too.

5. they set mic levels by asking guests what they had for breakfast that morning. can you believe i was the first to say frosted mini-wheats? i'd imagine that lefties generally say that they breakfast on stuff like cruelty-free bagels and bulgar-wheat muffins. i'm glad i didn't respond with the tasteless obscure sports reference that popped into my head (mike tyson's children. [sorry]). frosted mini-wheats is much funnier.

6. as a proud but reputedly phlegmatic norwegian-american, i wasn't aware that i spoke with my hands. turns out that i do, which is quite distracting for radio interviewers. mr. franken likely thought i was trying to relay some sort of elaborate secret signal (e.g., wrap it up quick, dude -- the bulgar muffin is repeating on me!).

7. one shouldn't make inferences from quick conversations, but ... he's so not a jerk. al franken is a look-you-in-the-eye real handshake kind of guy. off-air, he's disarming and open. if he runs for office, he'll win the crucial "which of these jokers would i rather have a beer with?" competition that has bedeviled the Dems in recent national elections.

8. the appearance likely sold a few books. locked out jumped up in amazon's sales rankings from a place alongside building military dioramas, vol. viii to a more respectable position alongside such wide-readership classics as modern antenna design. now if we can sell a third copy...

washington update: sufferin' suffrage rights

i wrote last month about washington's practice of denying voting rights to felons who can't afford to pay state-imposed fines, fees, and court costs. king county superior court judge michael spearman ruled last week that felons who completed their sentence but have not paid back such fines cannot be denied the right to vote:

"The Washington re-enfranchisement scheme which excludes one group of felons from exercising the right to vote, while permitting another, where the sole distinction between them is the ability to pay money bears no rational relation to any stated or apparent governmental purpose."

the state will surely appeal the ruling, but the practice paints an ugly picture for a democracy that prides itself on universal suffrage. plaintiff beverly dubois, convicted on a marijuana charge, has been paying $10 per month since her 2003 release. unfortunately, this doesn't even cover the interest on her fine, so her $1,600 fine has increased to about $2,000. but for this fine, she would be eligible to vote in the state.

most people enter the criminal justice system in poverty. making debtors of felons will make it that much more difficult for them to become stakeholding and tax-paying citizens in good standing. i wrote before that fining the poorest of the poor is either "piling on" to further criminalize the indigent or a misguided attempt to squeeze blood from turnips. in either case, the practice seems strange in a debtor nation -- a nation itself in hock for $8,377,471,102,607.82 .

a new version of indeterminate sentencing

in earlier posts, chris wrote about how we as a society dehumanize sex offenders, and i followed up on march 5th with more on the civil commitment of sex offenders after they have completed the original sentence imposed by the court. last week, the seattle times published a story about a "notorious" rapist who will be completing his 25-year sentence at the washington state penitentiary (apparently in its fifth week of lockdown) in september.

shortly before his release date, however, the state is planning to file a motion seeking a civil commitment for kevin coe, 59. according to the article, civil commitment motions are typically filed about a week before an inmate is due to be released, keeping him (or her) in state custody indefinitely while the case works its way through the courts. while awaiting a civil trial, coe would be held for years without bond at the special commitment center at mcneil island. if coe is sent to mcneil island, the chances for him to ever be released appear slim. a spokesman for the department of social and health services said: "there is no real pattern established for how long it takes to get through the program, but we have never had anybody graduate completely from the program."

just to be clear, the program was established in 1990, and in its 16 years, it has never had anyone graduate. currently there are 236 "sexually violent predators" housed in the secure mental health facility on mcneil island. the total confinement facility opened in 2004 with a capacity of 228 beds for men and four beds for women. an adjacent building for "low maintenance residents" added 80 beds in 2005. expansion is planned--as needed--to accomodate up to a maximum operational capacity of 398 beds.

if washington state continues to civilly commit sex offenders who have completed their prison sentences while offering them virtually no possibility of release, they had better plan to keep building.